dong ([info]dongstyle_ltd) wrote,
@ 2006-12-19 02:38:00
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Current location:Melbourne, Australia
Current mood: in depressive phase
Current music:at this time in the morning!?
Entry tags:visual art

I have a social life and yet I'm still a wanker
Lately I've been having much of a social life INTERJECTION: ZOMG NO WAI, most recently meeting and enjoying the company of [info]jm_horse, his mate [info]bastett (who were visiting for MiDfur) and the local [info]ebonypony whom I've been attempting to rendevous with for some months but failed until Sunday. JM has, in his report on the visit, written some sections about our conversations, which I just might go into more detail on, but I am feeling very lazy, so first up, all I will say is that it was most enjoyable company (and great beer. Which I drank alot of, which was a mistake as I've lost my previously considerable alcohol tolerance since leaving college.) I really ought to get out more.

What was interesting is that essentially a "fur-meet" of sorts- one further fueled by the fact that JM has a particular fascination for the equine-kind, which in itself is fascinating as my adopting an equine fursona was quite incidental. This is not the first such meeting (i.e. one with a distinctly furry subtext)- I attended a much larger gathering as part of [info]dimruthien's (along with a whole bunch of others') visit to Melbourne in August. I must say that the experience, which often included direct references to my "furryness" was a rather surreal one as it was coloured by not only my preconceptions on the nature of a "furmeet" but also the extent of my previous experiences: I only allude to my association by interest online or through art, literature, etc. It's not a lifestyle nor is it a cornerstone of my identity- it's simply a way of encapsulating my interest in anthropomorphic characters, and, as can be expected, related interests.

But on the flip side (again), there are certain trends which emerge (when observed on an individual basis) from this furry fandom. There are probably a number of contingent factors, such as the fact that when I'm left to my own devices, I usually make friends with those who are at least 4 years older than I am, as to be honest I find most (but thankfully not all) people from my own age bracket tediously...immature. It's just that in most cases were I to not actively socialise, friendships come from acquaintanceships which are circumstantial and usually derived from school (admittedly you could describe this in an Aristotlean manner). The furs I know are generally more insightful, self-aware and intelligent (regardless of emo-ness or apparent mental instability) than what I've come to expect from the general population- a comment backed up by some, but I do feel that it is due to the selective nature of such people (myself included) that gives us this view- a more common assessment from one who engages in fur-socialisation more comprehensively is that there is no significant difference for the demographic that furry does most strongly represent- by which I mean no real deviation from the realms of human nature. I'm interested in conducting studies to this effect- trying to discern any of the purported biases that some (often detractors) assert.

Anyway, getting towards the point, when I do meet other "furs", I tend to be rather glad that I can put a face and voice to the text. This implies that my previous aversion to face-to-face social activity has been effectively annulled, perhaps reflecting a growing security in my sense of self, but nonetheless this is something requiring some actual experience (which was suggested to me earlier this year). Also, it seems to suggest that I prefer to think of any fur's identity as based on the actual player- the reason for this not being that I must predicate a person's identity on their humanity, but rather that seems to me to aid in my presumptions for perceiving their being. It was no different when meeting JM and Bastett on Friday, and we managed to string together a most interesting conversation which, frankly, I wish I had more of and reckon that many people I know would also. I also have photos, but to save everybody some dignity I'll just stick to summarising the conversation.

In short, it meandered from a discussion of furry demographics (mentioned above) through to doomsday theories and population control (the link being one of the latest in a series of bizarre coincidences which seem to suggest that [info]airstrip and I have an alpha-wave connection, lol), basic chatter about mainstream economic ideals and politics and essentially the human condition. The conversation was continued in Ebs' company, and naturally then drifted into an area which I will spend some time on as part of the series of posts I intend to write (which I'll get around to doing shortly, again)- the fragmentation and factioning of the fandom especially with regards to kinks and fetishes. I'd like to go into some more detail here, although much of it I've said before and could probably be extrapolated from an earlier post on the polarisation phenomenon. In particular, I attempted to answer Bastett's question about how to reply to somebody who, in an attempt to invoke the "liberty act", asserts that one ought to be "tolerant to intolerance" as I have been told this very same thing, although likely in a slightly different context. I've selected this one specifically because when I did attempt to answer it orally, I had 3 pints of beer and a breezer in me and my speech was horrifically slurred (horrifically since the amount shouldn't have done that), making it impossible to pronounce "commitment to existence" with any clarity, and, for some funny reason, I attempted to draw a fancy analogy from a conundrum in epistemology, which was simply unnecessary and probably just plain confusing.

First off, I'm going to quote a section I wrote in a comment on another journal which was discussing the original phenomenon- the decline of the fandom (so to speak), as it will likely be more appreciated here (as, for a start, it'll actually be read):

...Because [the fandom] has long passed the critical mass where it is a single whole1- now it breaks up into factions divided, for a large part, into various fetishes/kinks. As it goes, alot of the time this is accompanied by hostility between factions as they seek to validate their sense of being and identity, usually via the conviction that everybody else is inferior.

...I see [this] as one of those self-exacerbating phenomena since especially in such a controversial arena as discussion of sexuality and fantasy, the discussion is always volatile and charged as our repressive society has made it a very personal and often socially damaging concern. As a result, all you will get from socialising in terms of groups is other people refusing to understand your position because they think you do not understand theirs. There is very little room for constructive discussion under these circumstances.2

What is the solution to this? For a start, not looking at it in terms of groups is one but this is very tricky already. Most of the problem is in people's habitual conflation of talking about a fetish/kink and the apparent moral implications of such- this is where most of the damage is done. It is fine to have a distaste for something but if you attempt to rationalise this and thus present a purportedly *justified* basis for disapproving of somebody else's predispositions, no good will ever come of it. Tolerance is the key here, but this is a world where such has been lost, and worse, within the fandom, a growing intolerance of tolerance3 is tearing it apart.
  1. This parallels general society and any sub-group within a population, as I've already explained in that post on polarisation.
  2. I would know: my strained relationship with my mother suffered this to a great degree.
  3. Thanks [info]strawcat. As you can see, I love this phrase.
From the last paragraph, I think my answer to Bastett's question is fairly simple- I regard tolerance as essential if one acknowledges predispositions, as implied by our understanding of biology and my understanding of the relationship between that and behaviors (for a quick summation of that, once again, refer to airstrip's journal, under HERITABILITY OF ATTITUDES). To deny this obligation would be to license prejudical discrimination (and yet again, this will be the thrust of a great portion of the coming posts). However, this does not mean one ought to be morally bankrupt as that's a separate consideration. Thus one ought to be tolerant of intolerance insofar as the intolerance is a predisposed bias, but need not any further than that, as other considerations would then come into play. For me, this generally involves judging the net effect upon those who are being censured- if the manifestation of the intolerance is a sufficient incitement to further disenfranchisement, I'd see fit to intervene. Most often, the problems arise at the step of rationalising one's predilections, for as I've said earlier in this journal, the generation of a framework upon which one explains their experience requires a commitment to that which it's based on. If one denies this then essentially they've denied their relevance to any related discourse. The process for most people who cannot comprehened this point is very much that of a raggedy patchwork. On the other end of the spectrum, the other problem tends to be that people subscribe to a form of either some egotist irrationalism ("I don't have to justify what I do as I'm cool with it") or determinism/the mistaken belief that biology dictates behavior ("it's not my fault that I do what I do as it's the way I am").

A quick example before I finish off, then- as of late I've seen a lot of vore (endosomatophilia) bashing in various guises, not all of which are directed at the actual kink/fetish as a whole (for a change). I will reserve my exploration of how this, and other 'paraphilias' (e.g. cannibilism) and modes of fantasies (e.g. fusion) might be linked (psychoanalytically, of all methods) through an existential lens, for a later post once the groundwork has been laid for it. But for now, one common objection (paraphrased for convenience): "How can you get off to something that involves death and essentially constitutes murder?" This can only be directed at those for whom death is a feature, but generally the assumption is made that since a literal interpretation of vore results in death that all those who are interested in it must consider death as part of their fantasy. Furthermore, if this objection is primarily moral, then it can only be directed at those who intend to or do engage in causing death via this practice (and even so, this is generally a misguided perception as it requires a normative assessment of the value of 'death'.) Above all, it can never be used as a justification for one's personal distaste for vore- it's simply sufficient to say "well look, to be honest, it's not my cuppa tea." Given my knowledge, it boggles my mind to see just how many people conflate their personal distaste with a need to extrapolate this to the entire population whilst preaching the message of "tolerance", but then I really should not be surprised, as I've already explained why this is so in the extract.

It occurs to me that this post is almost entirely composed out of things I have said before, or thought before and other people have expressed in a manner more articulate and clear than I could achieve. However, it also does the job of hinting at the direction of this journal for the immediate future and tying in a lot of material, which I hope is compensation enough for occupying so much of your time.

That said, if you saw "hifalutin" and decided to skip the cut, then since this post is furry-themed, I'll drop a little furry line-art; something I drew as both Strawcat and myself have slumped into this depressive phase:





Please note- this is NSFW as it depicts...uhh...equine genitalia in...uhm...full flight. No it's not yiff. And it will be coloured and done up properly. This is a draft!

Right. It's exceedingly late now, and I'm very tired (but I had to write this post in an attempt to gain some initiative). However, I've run the risk of being inane and offensively stupid for too many hours now, and will break it off right here.

Dong, out.



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[info]airstrip
2006-12-18 11:37 pm UTC (link)
The reason that the furries you encounter seem smarter than the rest of the population is, because you are using the Internet as a primary means of finding them, it is easier to select for intelligence by selecting for intelligent posting and comments. This isn't an "all and only those" but more an "only those" phenomenon. Over time, this has the effect of biasing your view in the classic availability way. A good analog is that I often forget how divergent the views of others are from my own with somewhat odd results... I presume that everyone thinks and knows everything I do about ethics, epistemology and so forth because everyone I talk to does or wants to.

To be brief: you're ignoring the idiots because you can and it's biasing your vision.

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[info]dongstyle_ltd
2006-12-19 07:48 am UTC (link)
I initially thought I had explained this but it turns out I hadn't, so thank you. I'm pretty aware of it- I may have mentioned before that I always wonder where my bias sits as one moment I feel like everybody's a moron and every now and then I am pleasantly surprised by others, so I obviously seek out the latter.

It should be pretty obvious to me, after all. I'm subscribed to the vg_cats feed but looking at the contents of the comments thread was such a traumatic experience for me that I felt distinctly uncomfortable when even looking at the comic itself for several months.

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[info]pokeypony
2006-12-19 01:35 am UTC (link)
Most everything you said dosent make sence to me because i am among the sto-pid population,but cute pic tho ^_^

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[info]true_anti_hero
2006-12-19 01:53 am UTC (link)
Thank god for Airstrip's cliif notes. ;)

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[info]dongstyle_ltd
2006-12-19 07:51 am UTC (link)
But I don't count you in the sto-pid population! 'Tivo was right on that count.

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[info]true_anti_hero
2006-12-19 01:51 am UTC (link)
Airstrip hit the nail on the head there Dong. I frequent a few car forums. Particularly the venerable Honda Hookup mostly for help with wiring because a lot of the guys there are Mobile audio experts and also in making / splicing harnesses. But, the amount of rather ignorant people there on that particular site is staggering, and some of the questions they ask are downright appalling.

I'll just quote a particular topic that just takes the cake for that site:

"Where is the add oil vent?"
Firstly it's not a vent, ever, in any motor. It's a cap that you remove and its' usually large enough to pour straight from the bottle into the engine. Usually on a larger engine it's on one of the valve covers. And almost always, if its' stock, you will see a little symbol, words in bright yellow that say ENGINE OIL, or OIL, and the weight the manufacture recommends for it to help it warm up quickly and pass emissions tests. Either way the fact that this person asks on a form about where it is on his vehicle was rather disturbing.

But to point it out further is there are stupid people in any genre or hobby. You just seem to ignore the OMG LOL WTFBBQGrass set completely.

Btw, that pic is hardly NSFW imo. Cute? OH god yes it's cute. But not disturbing in the least in it's current sketched out state.

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[info]dongstyle_ltd
2006-12-19 08:24 am UTC (link)
Heh, my favorite: Where is the ANY key?

I tend to be a bit more lenient on noobs in a hobby as when one starts out one is often prone to asking silly questions...though there is a reasonable limit. My definition of intelligences tends towards ability to learn, and some people, especially those in the WTFBBQ set, just fail at that. I have difficulty dealing with that!

The pic is NSFW by any workplace standards because it's furry and it's nekkid. 'nuff said :P

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[info]true_anti_hero
2006-12-20 02:43 am UTC (link)
So by that definition the Venus De Milo is also NSFW. ;P Because it contains nudity. Even though it is considered tasteful art.

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[info]dongstyle_ltd
2006-12-20 03:24 pm UTC (link)
haha, but furry!

Yeah, I know, it's tasteful, but I bet if I put the completed version on DA I'll get another infringement notice.

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[info]true_anti_hero
2006-12-20 07:50 pm UTC (link)
I'll tell ya what. E-mail them to me and I'll host them for you. :)

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